Come on Barca

[MightyWhite]

Get Guardiola and Jose in the prem and lets have a bit of fun again

[tommydski]

I think maybe he just feels haunted by his own past success and like the team/style of play he helped to create has possibly been sussed out by most teams they will play in crucial games. You could sense it over the last few seasons - especially whenever they faced one of Mourinho's teams. He showed the world how to beat them and now people do it with surprising regularity.

Guardiola, like his team, doesn't have a back-up plan.

[moscowhite]

I think maybe he just feels haunted by his own past success and like the team/style of play he helped to create has possibly been sussed out by most teams they will play in crucial games. You could sense it over the last few seasons -

Like last year, when they won the Champions League?

especially whenever they faced one of Mourinho's teams.

Mourinho's record with Madrid against Barcelona: P11 W2 D4 L5

He showed the world how to beat them and now people do it with surprising regularity.

Beaten four times in their last fifty matches in all competitions. The only surprising thing about that regularity is how irregular it is.

[tommydski]

There's going to be a tipping point and I'd argue we've just seen it. Those games at the Nou Camp seemed to demonstrate that they can be beaten if you organise correctly and play on the break. Probably not consistently, though possibly often enough to knock them out of contention in the league and cup competitions (like Inter, Chelsea and Madrid have done now - two teams managed by Mourinho, one team playing suspiciously like a Mourinho team with a handful of players you associate with his tenure at Chelsea).

Sure, it might be a good result to finish second and reach the semi-finals of the Champion's League for any other team but that's below expectations for Barcelona, for obvious reasons. I'd assume Guardiola is feeling the pressure a little bit or I don't think he'd be talking about taking a break.

[moscowhite]

It's football, of course they're going to lose some. Even more than that, the Chelsea games were cup football, and it's next to fucking impossible to win consistently in cups however good you are. How many times has a team ever retained a European trophy of any kind?

Leeds were one of the very best teams of their generation but failed to get over the finish line on plenty of occasions. Holland lost to West Germany. Blackburn won the league but it didn't prevent twenty years of Scum dominance. Things do happen.

Barcelona were fucking incredible earlier this season, i.e. four months ago, against teams who had no better ideas against them than they have now. I'm pretty sure Leverkusen went there six weeks ago looking to defend and attack on the break, and that didn't work so well for them. I don't think the reasons for their recent defeats are because it's all over for them stylistically or because they've been found out. I think it's two things: 1) David Villa's broken leg removing some of their cutting edge - he's a guy who isn't a afraid to take a shot on when required; 2) the fact that Villa's broken leg came during a mid-season tour of Japan, following on from their pre-season games out in America and South America and wherever the Spanish national team went (opening Costa Rica's new ground, of all things). They're fucking knackered, and they've already said they're not going to do a pre-season like that again. Guardiola giving kids debuts in the Champions League later stages didn't speak to me of an inherent trust in the production line, in spoke to me of a manager who has knackered out his best players in easy games (Messi never doesn't play, even when they're fucking 6-0 up in the cup early stages or something) and now doesn't have anything left.

He'd be a big daftie to quit; it'd be like Revie packing it in in 1971. Get the players rested,sign some new ones, stop crying and go again next season.

[tommydski]

They certainly are a lot better with Villa. I think if they'd had him this season, they would have won either La Liga or the Champion's League. Still, he's clearly got some doubts, unless it is all hot air to get a better deal and/or he's just having a bad week.

[Fax Man]

A few clues in this Gabriele Marcotti piece from a couple of years ago. Basically, like his squad, Guardiola is fucking knackered and needs to chill out a bit...

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/guard ... 23186.html

[barry white]

Come on Bilbao!

[Mustafaster]

He's knackered.
He's gonna take a year off.

[gazurtoids]

Bayer Leverkusen aren't a good example: they've done nothing in Bundesliga this year and won't be in the CL next season.The chances of them ever executing their game plan vs Barcelona were always very very low.

I don't think Barcelona have been "found out". However, a feasible blueprint for stopping them is now available for those sides whose "identity" allows them to do it. Inter and Chelsea were able to do it, arguably helped by having men sent off; Arsenal & Scum were unwilling to do it and fell accordingly. Mourinho's Madrid aren't allowed to do so, so he's developed a high-tempo, frantic hybrid. I'd want to see him win a couple more before it's deemed a complete success but he has the proof of concept.

I think this Chelsea win is important because it validates Inter 2010. That can no longer be dismissed as a fluke. Mourinho's argument on the importance of possession, or lack of, has been validated, aided by his current Madrid side. This means that the blueprint becomes a valid option for other big sides. It'll be interesting to see which way they go next season. It doesn't matter that the Bayer Leverkusens can't pull this off, only whether their trophy rivals can. And, if so, Barcelona will have to evolve accordingly.

[the flying pig]

...I don't think Barcelona have been "found out"...

yeah, the overreaction to a very unlucky loss in a knock-out game has been absurd.

i'm fairly sure that, half-listening to the guardan podcast this AM, i heard someone suggest that teams had 'worked out' how to play messi. the bloke has scored 63 goals in 55 games this year, comfortably his best ever haul, & earlier this month the buzz was all about how he was a better player than maradona [IMO messi is just about in the same class but it's a big shout to say he's better] etc.

they have not been as good as last year overall. although still impressive their points total in la liga will end up being about 10 short of what they got last year. the worst offenders are probably iniesta - a few people were [plausibly] saying that he was the best player in the world this time three years ago but, although youngish, he's had some bad injuries & to me looks not as nippy as he did then. david villa wasn't a particularly amazing signing at the price they paid but his bad injury was a bit of a blow.

[Man Called Sun]

The Queen's Beeb seem sure now.
I'm really surprised, and not a little bit sad. I reckon we'll never see the likes of this team again, and even if his replacement is similarly successful, I doubt it'll be the same.
What a guy.

And what the fuck have the beeb been smoking if they see Benitez as a replacement?

[Mr Reality]

Listening to balague yesterday think i was right about a striker and left back being top of barcas shopping list with bale a target

[Mustafaster]

...I don't think Barcelona have been "found out"...

yeah, the overreaction to a very unlucky loss in a knock-out game has been absurd.

i'm fairly sure that, half-listening to the guardan podcast this AM, i heard someone suggest that teams had 'worked out' how to play messi. the bloke has scored 63 goals in 55 games this year, comfortably his best ever haul, & earlier this month the buzz was all about how he was a better player than maradona [IMO messi is just about in the same class but it's a big shout to say he's better] etc.

they have not been as good as last year overall. although still impressive their points total in la liga will end up being about 10 short of what they got last year. the worst offenders are probably iniesta - a few people were [plausibly] saying that he was the best player in the world this time three years ago but, although youngish, he's had some bad injuries & to me looks not as nippy as he did then. david villa wasn't a particularly amazing signing at the price they paid but his bad injury was a bit of a blow.

True dat.
He is the most successful coach in Barca history, three Lia Liga titles, two Champions Leagues and a Copa del Rey (probabaly two) amongst a shitload of other trophies.
A narrow defeat against a fantastic Real Madrid team and a very unfortunate loss against Chelsea don't mean that he is a failure and that suddenly other teams have sussed the system out.
Everyone knows what the system is and has done for years, there are two ways of countering it:
1: Get everybody behind the ball and hope to fuck that they have an off day (Chelsea).
2: Have a shitload of world class players who work like fuck, and hope they have an off day (Madrid).
So long Pep and thatnks for the great football.

[gazurtoids]

The Queen's Beeb seem sure now.
I'm really surprised, and not a little bit sad. I reckon we'll never see the likes of this team again, and even if his replacement is similarly successful, I doubt it'll be the same.
What a guy.

And what the fuck have the beeb been smoking if they see Benitez as a replacement?

Much as I despise the cocky little dickhead, I think it'd be interesting to see Xavi parachuted straight into the role. It's been a while since there's been a great player-manager. Xavi seems to direct Barcelona on the field, it'd be interesting to see him have full control off it too.

[jackos]

So long Pep and thatnks for the great football.

He's not dead y know? He's a massively rich forty one year old bloke who is taking a years holiday, he can walk into a new job whenever he likes, sign a 5 year contract on 5 million quid a year in the knowledge that if he gets sacked he will be paid up in full. While he is on holiday he will probably earn millions from endorsements n the like. N if he wants to go back to Barca they'll give him whatever job he likes whenever he likes.

It's not like he was sent down n is looking forward to a lifetime in Armley.

[eric olthwaite]

Just reflecting on, I think, Musta's comment above - to the effect that this Barcelona team is one of a few teams he'd seen in his lifetime which had come up with a 'new' way of playing football.

I guess my gripe is this: to a greater or lesser extent, all such footballing innovation trickles slowly down to the lowest levels of the professional game. This is fine in principle. I mean, no-one ever actually matched totaalvoetbal because they didn't have Cruyff and Neeskens etc, but I'm sure that Dutch team ultimately changed the notion of positional play across the game.

Similarly, no other team has Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc. But the idea of talentless teams turning towards tika-taka is really, really horrible. It would be unimaginably depressing to watch.

So, thanks for a bit of fun Barcelona, but so long and fuck off now, yeah?

[Mustafaster]

Just reflecting on, I think, Musta's comment above - to the effect that this Barcelona team is one of a few teams he'd seen in his lifetime which had come up with a 'new' way of playing football.

I guess my gripe is this: to a greater or lesser extent, all such footballing innovation trickles slowly down to the lowest levels of the professional game. This is fine in principle. I mean, no-one ever actually matched totaalvoetbal because they didn't have Cruyff and Neeskens etc, but I'm sure that Dutch team ultimately changed the notion of positional play across the game.

Similarly, no other team has Messi, Iniesta, Xavi etc. But the idea of talentless teams turning towards tika-taka is really, really horrible. It would be unimaginably depressing to watch.

So, thanks for a bit of fun Barcelona, but so long and fuck off now, yeah?

Yeah, I'd agree with that. A fantastic 5 years, but everything must come to an end.

[OWETB]

I'm not happy that Chelsea won, I'm happy that Barca lost - big difference.

And yeah, it's very odd wanting Chelsea to win owt, but I was pleased that Liverpool got beat, and I can't really figure out why.

[Mustafaster]

I'm not happy that Chelsea won, I'm happy that Barca lost - big difference.

And yeah, it's very odd wanting Chelsea to win owt, but I was pleased that Liverpool got beat, and I can't really figure out why.

Get fucked.