Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Discussion on LUFC and absolutely anything... welcome to the Dark Side

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 am

Phil LUFC wrote:Only thing I can't understand.... Warnock has promised he can go next summer if we don't go up, why isn't it written into the contract offer? £5m non-promotion release clause.


well, this is partly zero sum from the club and snodgrass' point of view.

RS will be a free agent in summer 2013.

let's say that, oh, Everton will be willing to give him [to use a round number, possibly a bit on the high side] £10m then to persuade him to join them, because they reckon that, over the length of his contract, they'll get £10m worth of benefits out of him.

a £5m release clause would make those £10m worth of benefits start to look a lot less attractive. it'd only be possible for Everton to justify offering snodgrass himself £5m really. so for snodgrass to agree to the clause he'd basically have to be quite risk averse, quite worried about picking up an injury between now and the summer. which i suppose he may be.

but for us to persuade him to sign up i reckon we'd need to promise to let him go for a really quite low fee [e.g. a million or two at most] in the summer when we stayed down, maybe even promise to let him go for something similar in january if we're not top six. and offer big bucks, obviously.

as gaz said, he has a strong hand, being a good player with a short contract.
User avatar
the flying pig
 
Posts: 8639
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Tue May 22, 2012 9:39 am

sorry if a bit behind with this one but grim to see OS reckoning that neither LAW or RM will sign.

http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120522/defender-poised-to-agree-new-deal_2247585_2780178

ross i'm not the very biggest fan ever of but it's just, well, instability innit... often it's better to keep a known 6.5 out of 10 player than take a chance bringing in a new player who could be anything between a 4 and an 8.

white isn't the new tony dorigo but he could easily be a decent little player at a better level than our current one. galling to see him go before we've had a chance to find out.
User avatar
the flying pig
 
Posts: 8639
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Tue May 22, 2012 9:46 am

the flying pig wrote:sorry if a bit behind with this one but grim to see OS reckoning that neither LAW or RM will sign.

http://www.leedsunited.com/news/20120522/defender-poised-to-agree-new-deal_2247585_2780178

ross i'm not the very biggest fan ever of but it's just, well, instability innit... often it's better to keep a known 6.5 out of 10 player than take a chance bringing in a new player who could be anything between a 4 and an 8.

white isn't the new tony dorigo but he could easily be a decent little player at a better level than our current one. galling to see him go before we've had a chance to find out.

OS wrote:"We've heard nothing back from Aidy other than I don't expect that he will accept the offer from what I was told by his advisors.

"It's the same with Ross (McCormack). We'll have to wait and see what happens with that. It is difficult, but there's nothing you can do really."

Adios chicos y gracias or todo el pescado.
I was correct!
User avatar
Mustafaster
 
Posts: 4670
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
Location: PC Brigade House.

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Man Called Sun » Tue May 22, 2012 10:07 am

I'm gonna bloody stop looking at this thread now, it's just too depressing.
God bless you Snoddy lad. :salute:
User avatar
Man Called Sun
 
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:26 am
Location: Nottingham

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby gazurtoids » Tue May 22, 2012 10:08 am

the flying pig wrote:ross i'm not the very biggest fan ever of but it's just, well, instability innit... often it's better to keep a known 6.5 out of 10 player than take a chance bringing in a new player who could be anything between a 4 and an 8.


I think it's going to be unstable either way. The club won't pay enough to keep Snodgrass and White and McCormack and Clayton (in decreasing order of value to us). Losing one will likely precipitate the departures of the others and weaken the argument that we should keep any of them just for "stability" reasons, reducing the likelihood that the club will meet their demands and perpetuating the cycle. The Team That Grayson Built will finally dissipate before eyes this summer, unfortunately.
User avatar
gazurtoids
 
Posts: 6737
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby gazurtoids » Tue May 22, 2012 10:10 am

It is difficult, but there's nothing you can do really.


Apart from, say, using the highest ticket prices in the division to pay competitive wages?
User avatar
gazurtoids
 
Posts: 6737
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby the flying pig » Tue May 22, 2012 10:20 am

gazurtoids wrote:
It is difficult, but there's nothing you can do really.


Apart from, say, using the highest ticket prices in the division to pay competitive wages?


To [partly] quote Meatloaf, Kenneth is a great businessman etc, who would do anything for Leeds... but he won't do that.

Just chucking a random question out there - the team/squad that beat them 1-0 & that got promotion, so including beckford, gradel, BJ, kilkenny, LJW, and snodgrass... how good was it?

credible contenders for promotion to the top flight? i think it was, certainly with a better keeper [and recognising that naylor was probably going to be too old].
User avatar
the flying pig
 
Posts: 8639
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:24 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby gazurtoids » Tue May 22, 2012 10:51 am

the flying pig wrote:Just chucking a random question out there - the team/squad that beat them 1-0 & that got promotion, so including beckford, gradel, BJ, kilkenny, LJW, and snodgrass... how good was it?

credible contenders for promotion to the top flight? i think it was, certainly with a better keeper [and recognising that naylor was probably going to be too old].


I think Mickey Doyle needed to be replaced. But the front 5 or 6 players in that team was good enough.
User avatar
gazurtoids
 
Posts: 6737
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue May 22, 2012 10:52 am

the flying pig wrote:
Phil LUFC wrote:Only thing I can't understand.... Warnock has promised he can go next summer if we don't go up, why isn't it written into the contract offer? £5m non-promotion release clause.


well, this is partly zero sum from the club and snodgrass' point of view.

RS will be a free agent in summer 2013.

let's say that, oh, Everton will be willing to give him [to use a round number, possibly a bit on the high side] £10m then to persuade him to join them, because they reckon that, over the length of his contract, they'll get £10m worth of benefits out of him.

a £5m release clause would make those £10m worth of benefits start to look a lot less attractive. it'd only be possible for Everton to justify offering snodgrass himself £5m really. so for snodgrass to agree to the clause he'd basically have to be quite risk averse, quite worried about picking up an injury between now and the summer. which i suppose he may be.

but for us to persuade him to sign up i reckon we'd need to promise to let him go for a really quite low fee [e.g. a million or two at most] in the summer when we stayed down, maybe even promise to let him go for something similar in january if we're not top six. and offer big bucks, obviously.

as gaz said, he has a strong hand, being a good player with a short contract.


Well, yeah, the exact sum wasn't really my point. Just saying that if the difference between snoddy staying or going boils down to a concern Warnock won't be around to honour his commitment, then surely it can be written into the contract. Without a clause, and with Warnock still here next summer committing to sell Snoddy, we must surely have been planning on getting a decent fee, so not sure your scenario has really entered his thoughts that much - only really comes into play if he wants to choose to stay a year longer on his current deal. Can't fault Snoddy at all, with interviews like that he moves a step closer to leaving with the fans blessing.
User avatar
Phil LUFC
 
Posts: 6152
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby gazurtoids » Tue May 22, 2012 10:59 am

tfp's point was that a 5m release clause increases his cost to a buying club without increasing his value. The number of clubs that could afford him (everton being a good example) would decrease. He may end up caught in a position where the clubs that want him can't afford him and the clubs that can afford him don't want him. It would be a silly thing to do.
User avatar
gazurtoids
 
Posts: 6737
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mr Reality » Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 am

gazurtoids wrote:tfp's point was that a 5m release clause increases his cost to a buying club without increasing his value. The number of clubs that could afford him (everton being a good example) would decrease. He may end up caught in a position where the clubs that want him can't afford him and the clubs that can afford him don't want him. It would be a silly thing to do.

100% correct
Mr Reality
 
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Phil LUFC » Tue May 22, 2012 11:31 am

gazurtoids wrote:tfp's point was that a 5m release clause increases his cost to a buying club without increasing his value. The number of clubs that could afford him (everton being a good example) would decrease. He may end up caught in a position where the clubs that want him can't afford him and the clubs that can afford him don't want him. It would be a silly thing to do.


I understand that, I'm saying that the exact fee doesn't matter, what we're talking about here is creating a scenario which gives Snoddy some assurances beyond the word of a manager who may not be here next summer. I don't believe Warnock has said he'll let Snoddy go for free to get him to the prem next summer (or in January), otherwise we'd presumably not have even offered a new deal (given the way we do things).

Yes, Snoddy has more options if he allows his contract to run down, but as a club we're clearly not keen to let that happen - we're simply asking Snoddy for 1 more season (a big ask given his age, ability and international ambitions), if we don't get it, we'll sell but it seems 1 of the hurdles is concerns that warnock's sacking would result in us making him stay yet another year, which potentially impacts on his WC dreams. Surely a release clause, at or below an amount we'd be willing to take right now, should we not go up would help.
User avatar
Phil LUFC
 
Posts: 6152
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: Scunthorpe

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Proud to be Leeds » Tue May 22, 2012 11:55 am

jackos wrote:Bit more in The Scotsman
He’s already said he won’t be sticking around as manager for much longer,” said Snodgrass. “Who knows whether he’s got one or two more years left at Leeds? If it’s one year, and I don’t sign the contract, then I’ll be free next year. If I do sign, I’d have another year left and be in the same situation I am now..


So what length contract are we actually offering him?
NOW YOU'RE JUST SOMEBODY THAT I USED TO KNOW
User avatar
Proud to be Leeds
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Tue May 22, 2012 5:12 pm

Do love the Daily Mail headline when the rehash the same story . .. Snodgrass blasts Bates over unfulfilled promises as Leeds captain eyes Premier move. In Bates favourite rag n all. :D
User avatar
jackos
 
Posts: 6221
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby See you next Tuesday » Tue May 22, 2012 5:13 pm

Proud to be Leeds wrote:
jackos wrote:Bit more in The Scotsman
He’s already said he won’t be sticking around as manager for much longer,” said Snodgrass. “Who knows whether he’s got one or two more years left at Leeds? If it’s one year, and I don’t sign the contract, then I’ll be free next year. If I do sign, I’d have another year left and be in the same situation I am now..


So what length contract are we actually offering him?


Presumably just a 1 year extension (so a new 2 year deal) brilliant, eh?
"If some cunt can fuck something up, that cunt will pick the worst possible time to fucking fuck it up because that cunt's a cunt"
User avatar
See you next Tuesday
 
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:02 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Fax Man » Tue May 22, 2012 5:31 pm

Warnock's interview with Radio Leeds tonight on Snoddy etc..

http://audioboo.fm/boos/813914-neil-war ... adio-leeds
Fax Man
 
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Mustafaster » Tue May 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Fax Man wrote:Warnock's interview with Radio Leeds tonight on Snoddy etc..

http://audioboo.fm/boos/813914-neil-war ... adio-leeds

Fuck, Bates is gonna go ballistic about that. :mrgreen:
Giving an interview to the BBC and telling the truth? You can't fuckin do that! The last time a manager did owt similar was ... eeerrr... Grayson, and it got him the sack. :bomb:
I was correct!
User avatar
Mustafaster
 
Posts: 4670
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:02 am
Location: PC Brigade House.

Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Tue May 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Fax Man wrote:Warnock's interview with Radio Leeds tonight on Snoddy


AndrewHaigh wrote: Interesting stuff from Warnock on Radio Leeds. Denies bid for Derby's Davies: "If I get £1m I'll have to spend that on five players!"


This really is getting depressing as fuck, can't you do yrself and us a favour n fuck off Warnock? Surely you have seen through Bates n Harveys lies now??
User avatar
jackos
 
Posts: 6221
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby Ontolly » Tue May 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Telling stuff - Warnock might just be what we need...
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
User avatar
Ontolly
 
Posts: 2315
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:36 pm
Location: Worcester

Trialists, Transfers & Speculation

Postby jackos » Tue May 22, 2012 6:33 pm

Ontolly wrote:Telling stuff - Warnock might just be what we need...


Only if we buy the bullets, bloody obvious he can't afford hm ....
User avatar
jackos
 
Posts: 6221
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 am
Location: Stockholm

PreviousNext

Return to The Square Ball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beer Pig, dublin white 69, eric olthwaite, Quiffy, thechubbyone and 5 guests